I don't really see the point of bashing Tony Hoagland for something he is not or for something he doesn't do. Granted, Tony was my teacher for a long time. And no, we don't agree on everything. If anything, Tony has been nothing but a marvelous and encouraging teacher, even if what I wanted to do was in the opposite direction of where he was going. Lately, accusations of Tony being a racist, a homophobe, a misogynist, ... has resurfaced. Obviously, many of his former students would say he is anything but. If anything, without Tony, I wouldn't have read August Kleinzahler, the Objectivists, Robert Duncan, Mina Loy (well, Michael Dumanis also played a part here), Michael Palmer, Anne-Marie Albiach (whom I had never heard of while living in France. Tony basically encouraged me to reconsider my stance on contemporary French poetry), Jean Follain, Tomas Tranströmer, ... and I would still be writing bad imitations of Frank O'Hara and Kenneth Koch.

Here is something Tony and I both agree on. We are all prejudiced, including and especially ourselves. Political correctness is only a band-aid. Tony cannot rail against those prejudices without confronting his own, which he does in What Narcissism Means to Me. He started as a confessionalist, after all.

Comments

Johannes said…
What are you referring to here?

I have disagreed with TH in the past, but I have renewed respect for him because he admitted one of Lara Glenum's amazingly strange students into the Houston program.
François Luong said…
I was not referring to you, Johannes. I've respected your opinions on Tony, whether I've agreed with them (on fragments and heteroglossia) or not (those ones I can't remember).

As for Lara Glenum's student, I hope he/she does get Tony as a mentor. While he will be a bit turned off by his/her weirdness, he will encourage him/her to be more precise and consistent. For all that matters, he/she might get weirder after studying with Tony, like I did.
François Luong said…
Oh, and I was referring to some comments that were made on Barbara Jane Reyes's blog and elsewhere.
csperez said…
oops. not making fun of Tony , just that one silly poem of his ;) no offense to you i hope!
bjanepr said…
francois - i don't think what's happening on my blog is 'tony hoagland bashing' as much as it is comparing what he says in the article i excerpt from, vs. how this plays out in his own poetry, or comparing his critical work vs. his poetic work, so in this way i do think the discussion is about what he does.
bjanepr said…
PS: discussion is here.
François Luong said…
BJR: I was actually pointing at "Rich"'s accusations on your comment field, not to your notes on that essay.
Johannes said…
That poem is pretty dubious, Francois. Though, like Barbra, I am not opposed to the sentiments she quotes from an essay.
François Luong said…
I would agree that most of Tony's poems from What Narcissism Means to Me are rather dubious. I will admit that I (and some other friends at UH) have felt rather uncomfortable at first after reading it, mostly over how Tony brings up topics that are quite uncomfortable and how later, the poem turns into a more comfortable territory, such as this last line in "The Change," in a way that feels almost like candor. At the time, I thought that Tony should have taken a more revolted position, should have railed against those natural impulses.

But after much thought (and much talk with Tony about it), I think this turn is a lot of more subversive than it seems. Tony is striving for his own sense of realism in a context of political correctness. Yes, that turn is uncomfortable and it should feel uncomfortable, because it is too common.

Another thing about Tony is that he is not one to give you lessons. I remember him telling me he was quite into the Objectivists when he was writing this book, especially Zuk's dictum to "describe things as they are without interference from the narrator." In this context and in the context of his essay on meanness, I'm not in position to agree with Rich's simplistic narrative of white guilt or the well-meaning utopianism of Mark Doty (whose aesthetics, even though both stem from a confessionalist tradition, are quite different from Tony's).

That being said, do I believe that WNMTM is the best thing ever written or, as Rich puts it, "a pile of horseshit"? Obviously, I don't like clean-cut positions.

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